Alternative Energy Talk with Brandon Sandmaier

I think that definitely the longer hours working in the oil and gas sector was obviously, you know, there was there was more earning potential there.

But definitely for me anyway, it’s it’s become a little bit better quality of life, you know, more time at home with my family, you know, less time working on weekends, that sort of thing.

The Job Talk Podcast shares stories from people who are passionate and love what they do in their careers.

Through conversation, we explore their careers, past work experiences and the education that got them to where they are now.

We are putting together a Career Crisis Ultimate Interview series.

We are asking experts to give their best advice and guidance around work anxiety career pressures, career goal setting, and ultimately career transformation.

To learn more about this special interview series and get notified when it’s available, please visit our web page at thejobtalk.com/help Today’s guest is Brandon Sandmaier.

Here’s our job talk with an alternative energy specialist.

Brandon, you are the perfect person to talk to you because you made a change in your career.

You went back to school and we’ll get to that.

But where did you go to high school and what were you doing after you graduated from grade 12? Yeah.

So I started after I went to high school in small town Alberta, like like many people, and started working as a small engine mechanic right after high school and spent some time doing that and got interested in, in moving forward to the kind of the next step which was working on more heavy equipment.

And that led me down the road to, to go to NAIT for a two year diploma program that was focused around heavy equipment.

It’s called Industrial Heavy Equipment Technology.

And I’m I believe it’s still operating to this day.

Okay.

So that got you into the oil and gas industry, is that correct? Is that where you took those skills and that education? Yeah, that’s right.

So after my two years at NAIT, I was hired by one of the oil sand companies up in Fort McMurray, and they hired me to apprentice as a heavy duty technician.

in Fort McMurray, and they hired me to apprentice as a heavy duty technician.

So I started yeah, I started my my apprenticeship route for the next three years after graduating from NAIT and became a journeyman heavy equipment technician.

So in that during that time, I was working on all of the oil sand equipment, So in that during that time, I was working on all of the oil sand equipment, the heavy hauler trucks, the support equipment, cranes.

I got a pretty good dose of variety up there and yeah, spent spent a few years after that actually working on some pipeline equipment and then settled into working on mobile cranes for kind of the last half of that, that portion of my career, a majority of it was, was oil and gas based work supporting different mod yards that are that were around the city and we did do a bit of just basic construction as well with equipment that I worked on.

But the majority of it was was oil and gas support.

Were you thinking that you were going to have a long career in that industry? Was that going to be it that was going to be a 20 to 30 year career? Yeah. You know, that was that was kind of it.

I, I most people told me, you know, when I was in Fort McMurray that, you know, you need 20 years in and then you’re set, you know, that’s all you got to do.

and then you’re set, you know, that’s all you got to do.

And I was not real thrilled over that.

I decided that, you know, I, I spent my time up there I decided that, you know, I, I spent my time up there and then I moved down to Edmonton and started working in the same field but, but closer to home.

but closer to home.

And it was, it was something that I didn’t really know where it could lead.

I expected that I would probably end up in, you know, a management role, maybe at some point in time.

But those opportunities didn’t present themselves because there was just so much work to do.

And I was spending a lot of time in a in a field service truck, you know, working weekends.

And it it started taking over more of my life as I got married and decided to have kids.

So I wanted to be home a little bit more.

And so when I was around 30 years old, I kind of had a a a moment where we considered, you know, changing careers.

a a moment where we considered, you know, changing careers.

My wife and I kind of sat down and tried to figure out, you know, what else I could do if there was anything else out there.

It’s kind of a good time to to make a choice.

And how extensive was your research into other industries that you were going to look at to make a switch there? Yeah, well, I think I focused for a couple of months on different programs that were available.

I kind of I went pretty wide.

I even looked at becoming, you know, a teacher.

I even looked at becoming, you know, a teacher.

At one point I took I took some courses at U of A for that, and it didn’t quite feel right and then looked at more of what transferable skills I had.

So the kinds of things that I was good at were, you know, electrical hydraulics, you know, thermodynamics, those kinds of things that you deal with on a day to day with with repair work.

And so I tried to see what those kind of skills would transfer to.

And NAIT always kept coming up on the radar because it’s kind of good at that.

It has a lot of variety, and it can it can make use of the skills that you have in different industries.

So I had looked at the construction engineering technology program and then another one called Alternative Energy Technology, which was was very new.

This was in 2014 and it it only had, I think, three or four years of grads before that.

So it was, it was quite new and it was kind of on yeah.

So it was, it was quite new and it was kind of on yeah.

Was kind of unknown as to what would happen after coming out of it.

So those were the two primary ones that I looked at.

Did you receive any negative feedback from some of your old oil and gas colleagues that you were that you landed on entering Alternative Energy Technology at NAIT? Did anyone give you any static for that? Well, I think I think there was just more.

So like they were happy that I was deciding to make a change, you know, because it’s difficult.

And they understood that.

And, you know, there wasn’t And, you know, there wasn’t really an industry to speak of at the time.

No, nothing substantial, you know, like like we have today, which is not a whole you know, it’s not many years down the road that we that we have a flourishing, you know, industry here.

But but back then, in 2014, you know, there was there was no real issue with working in the oil and gas industry.

there was no real issue with working in the oil and gas industry.

There was plenty of jobs.

And it was it was, you know, quite lucrative for everyone who was working in it as long as you didn’t mind putting your hours in.

And I think that that people who I worked with, they didn’t see you know, they didn’t see it as a competing industry or or that I was going down the wrong road.

You know, everyone offered, you know, if it doesn’t work out, You know, everyone offered, you know, if it doesn’t work out, you can always kind of come back and, you know, it’s worth a shot kind of thing.

But I never heard any flak from that, from that side of it, at least not, not, not, not that I was aware of anyway.

Yeah.

So alternative energy technology at NAIT, what are the specific courses that you’re taking when you go through that program? And I believe it’s a two year program, correct? It’s a two year program.

I would say it’s a three year program that’s squeezed into two.

But I think I think there are lots of diploma programs like that where it’s it’s super intense for two years.

But the courses that we were But the courses that we were that we were given in that program kind of were more created to to create a generalist, you know, in alternative energy, more so than than somebody who’s very specific.

So it would we would have we had courses and training on, on solar, solar PV, electric and and thermal like for hot water and then geothermal.

We also did wind and hydroelectricity.

We did energy management, which is kind of the field that I’m working in right now, which is more of the study of energy within use, within buildings and management of that energy storage, bioenergy.

So like biofuels, ethanol and biodiesel, those kind of things, we, we were, you know, we actually made those products, which was kind of neat in the labs.

And then hydrogen fuel cells, which is something that’s kind of reared its head.

Again, many people are talking about hydrogen these days.

And and so yeah, we were those were kind of that was the spread.

And there’s probably even more, but those were the main topics.

And what were some of the backgrounds of some of your fellow students in that program? Did you find there was a lot of people that transitioned from other industries into it as well? Yeah, for the most part it was a variety, but I think that it was interesting to see people who had degrees behind them, like who had done a degree at the U of A just recently, but wanted some more, you know, specificity.

We had people that had education degrees, we had political science.

We had some electricians who are transitioning.

We had some engineers who were, you know, in between courses and wanted to to to, you know, sort of in between years in their in their schooling and wanted to take some some courses.

So yeah, and we also had grads straight out of high school.

So there was a lot of, a lot of diverse backgrounds which, which made it interesting.

And I think students were able to learn from each other too, you know, not just from from the instructors because of because of the diversity.

For sure.

And when you graduate from the alternative energy technology from NAIT, what kind of specific jobs can you apply for? Yeah, again, very diverse, but I would say the most popular positions are within the solar energy field.

Energy management and and bioenergy, I would say from just from my experience and from people that I graduated with, I know that solar is usually the one that people come in hoping to work in.

But as I did and and it was something that I did work in for, for a period of time.

And now I’ve gravitated towards energy management.

So the the interesting part of it is that you can, you know, because you have such a diverse background, you don’t necessarily need to stay in, you know, in one sector of of the of renewables, there are things that you can easily strafe over because you understand, because as a grad you kind of understand energy and are able to apply that to to whatever, whatever comes at you.

So I think that I think that it’s yeah, mostly people think you’re coming in and it’s a solar program, but, but it’s a very diverse program and there’s, there’s lots of international students that come as well because there’s not as many of these types of programs available throughout the world.

And I think that there is you know, obviously this is a worldwide problem, climate change and and the solutions.

It’s neat to see people coming to Edmonton, you know, to go back home and and apply these concepts to their own country.

Yeah, you can take everything that you learned. And I guess, is it a diploma that you receive when you graduate from the program? It’s a diploma. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

And you could take this anywhere in the world.

Yeah, I really like it’s it’s a unique program.

You can also I believe through NAIT, you can do another two years and and get a a bachelor in technology, I believe.

I can’t remember exactly what the term is, but I know that there is another program that you can you can go through with NAIT and get a degree actually through this.

So you just mentioned something and I know very little about alternative energy, but wind turbines and solar panels is one better than the other.

I, I think that they’re, they’re very specific to your resource, right? So like, for example, I wouldn’t if the company came to me today and said, I want to put up a wind turbine on your family farm here in in northern Alberta, around Edmonton.

You know, I’d show them the door because there’s there’s the economics just aren’t there.

We don’t have a lot of wind here in northern Alberta.

But if you go to Pincher Creek, you know, there’s there’s a But if you go to Pincher Creek, you know, there’s there’s a there’s a financial argument to be made there and and hence why you see all of the turbines down in that area.

The wind speed is so high that that there actually is you know, a significant amount of electricity that can be harvested off of that.

But likewise for so for solar, Alberta in general is a is a really great solar resource.

But in the south, further in the south, their resource is, is, is better.

And this is why you see a lot of the large solar projects that are going in and Alberta utility scale projects are going in, you know, south of Bassano, you know, down by Lethbridge, the whole area is, is starting to become kind of the solar alley and yeah, so, so I wouldn’t say one is better than the other.

I think they’re they’re both useful technologies.

It’s just applying them in the right way to get the maximum amount of, you know, emissions reduction and and the savings or revenue, I guess, depending on how you’re looking at it.

Yeah, that’s my one very specific question about some of the technology in in your industry. Yeah that’s good.

Let’s let’s talk about your position now and what are you doing in your day to day.

Yeah.

So now I work for a local municipality and I’m, I guess the, my title is an energy specialist.

Typically these roles are called energy management positions where, you know, it’s a role where, where you are responsible for the energy consumption of of of a group of facilities.

You know, commercial businesses have these as well, like, you know, your Wal-Marts and Home Depots and they would all have an energy management group or division as well, because energy is a significant portion of their expenditure.

So managing it and managing their emissions as well kind of is what the role is about.

So that’s what I’m in.

That’s what I’ve been doing for the last year and a half.

So I have another certification in energy auditing.

So a certified energy auditor, that’s through an organization called the AEE Association of Energy Engineers in the US and it’s yeah, it’s just accreditation that, that I was able to get on energy auditing for commercial buildings.

So being able to, to go into a commercial building and assess how much energy it’s using and then recommend measures that are going to reduce energy consumption of the building over time period.

And then estimating doing the financial analysis to show, you know, the payback value of each individual recommendation.

What do you think you enjoy most about what you’re doing right now? Right now, I like the fact that there’s a variety.

I guess I have I have a lot of desktime, I guess doing analysis, you know, updating reports. Our reporting and then doing grant applications is a big part of my role as well.

So if there’s if there’s grants available for doing building retrofits or programs to help our residents save energy, these are things that I, I kind of will take on in my day to day.

But then I also do a fair amount of project management.

So if there is a project that I deem worthy to do and it has a favorable payback, for example, an LED lighting retrofit on a facility, then I, I take on the role of, of, of hiring the contractor take on the role of, of, of hiring the contractor and then project managing it from start to finish.

So I enjoy the kind of that there’s, there’s both I get to get out of the office and do site visits and work with our facilities team to do testing on site, you know, measuring, measuring energy use for different equipment that we have and yeah, interacting with contractors.

So there’s, there’s lots of variety and that’s that’s kind of the thing that I like the most.

Are you surprised that in a relatively short period of time you’ve landed in the position that you’re in? Yeah, absolutely.

I had no expectations for the the course that I took because I really didn’t know what was going to happen.

My wife and I were fully, you know, ready to if we had to move to B.C., because they seemed at the time to have more of a a burgeoning industry with with regard to renewables.

We were going to do that, you know, but We were going to do that, you know, but thankfully we did we didn’t have to be able to stay here and I graduated in 2016.

So it’s it’s, you know, it hasn’t been a long time, I guess.

So it’s it’s, you know, it hasn’t been a long time, I guess.

And I was able to kind of gather a whole bunch of different experience in that time because there was so much growth and kind of ended up where I am.

And that’s yeah, it’s it’s great to to also see, you know, the growth in the industry like within within solar.

When I, when I was coming out of school like the largest utility scale When I, when I was coming out of school like the largest utility scale solar project that we had was a two megawatt project, you know, in, in southern Alberta.

And now we have, you know, like a thousand times more than that And now we have, you know, like a thousand times more than that installed in Alberta, installed in Alberta, you know, to the order of two gigawatts of, of, of solar and clean energy, kind of in total rate.

So there’s there’s an amazing amount of investment going on.

And I read recently that it was like 3.75 billion is going to be input into Alberta’s clean energy sector by 2023.

So like the investment is there and this is not like government grant, you know, which is really neat.

This is like private investment.

Big banks are getting involved in it because Alberta’s got such a great resource and and the way that the, the market works here, a great resource and and the way that the, the market works here, they’re able to to kind of to get involved sign power purchase agreements so that they can you know, produce built build the asset, produce the energy and then offset, you know, their usage as a as a corporation or whatever.

Right. So there’s yeah, it’s an entirely new kind of industry that that is really targeted at offsetting carbon emissions.

So it’s neat to see the growth and the amount of jobs.

I think the article said that there’s something in the order of 4500 jobs created, you know, by that that investment. So created, you know, by that that investment. So very cool to see and it’s it’s encouraging, you know, to know that, see and it’s it’s encouraging, you know, to know that, you know, I kind of lucked out and made the right choice at the right time because it definitely wasn’t like the foresight it was.

It was it was definitely just, yeah.

Luck that I was able to kind of land on my feet at this time because it had been a few years previous.

It may have been a little more difficult to make a go at it right.

So the compensation between oil and gas and alternative energy, do you think it’s comparable or is it becoming comparable? you know, it’s difficult to say because it depends on what, you know, what a person was doing before for for me personally, it’s comparable.

I think that definitely the longer hours working in the oil and gas sector was obviously, you know, there was there was more earning potential there.

But but definitely for me anyway, it’s become a little bit better quality of life, you know, more time at home with my family, you know, less time working on weekends, that sort of thing.

So I would say that it’s comparable in that regard.

And, you know, others may have different experiences because, you know, because they were in different roles.

experiences because, you know, because they were in different roles.

If they do transition, you know, it’s hard to enter a new industry at the same kind of level that you were, you know, maybe in a long term position at the same kind of level that you were, you know, maybe in a long term position with an oil and gas firm.

But but those are starting to emerge where where, you know, companies are starting to get big enough that they you know, they need managers that can handle the amount of staff that they have.

You know, and if if you have that experience, you know, oil and gas sector You know, and if if you have that experience, you know, oil and gas sector job, you may be able to transition over to, you know, some of the companies job, you may be able to transition over to, you know, some of the companies that are starting to do do work in energy efficiency or or renewables.

Work life balance is better.

I was going to ask you and this might be a little bit out of sequence, but when you left your career in oil and gas, did you just have a feeling that you knew you had to make a change and you couldn’t continue doing what you were doing? And then you made the switch? Yeah.

Yeah, there was there was a lot of contributing factors, I would say, excuse me, but I think that the primary one was that the primary one was that I, I wanted just change for me.

Like a challenge is, is something that is important to keep me engaged with, with my career and not, not that my, you know, previous role wasn’t challenging, but, but, you know, learning new things, previous role wasn’t challenging, but, but, you know, learning new things, I guess, and being challenged in that way is, is, is important to me.

And and going back to school was always something that I wanted to do.

It was the big question mark was what like, what, what is, is, is the cause that, that I would like to spend, you know, two years learning about.

And and it was it was something that, like I said, I wasn’t expecting to to have, you know, full time work after I was, you know, fully fully understanding that that might not be the case.

But I’m thankful that it was.

What are some of the challenges that you face in your day to day work? I think just overcoming the barriers of understanding, you know, the language that I speak in energy, it’s it’s very technical.

Depending on on what I’m talking about, I can use interchangeable terms Depending on on what I’m talking about, I can use interchangeable terms that that are you know, synonymous to me, but complete gibberish to other people.

that that are you know, synonymous to me, but complete gibberish to other people.

So I think simplifying the work that I do down to a an easy to understand, you know, summary is kind of what a lot of people need from me.

And it’s difficult for me to to do that sometimes because I like to go into the details and find the, you know, the nuance in what I’m trying to explain to people.

But it’s important to be able to simplify things and make it understandable.

So I think that’s probably one of the biggest challenges that I face in my day to day.

that I face in my day to day.

I guess also just getting, you know, the typical things with project management where, you know, you’re following up with with contractors and people, you know, with with contractors and people, you know, getting back to you in the time that you would like.

And so it’s no different than, you know, any other project management And so it’s no different than, you know, any other project management role in that way.

But yeah, I would say those are kind of the major hurdles, honestly, the the role that I have currently, everyone that I work with is fantastic.

They’re all very supportive of what I do.

And and they’re, you know, they’re happy to help in any way that they can and learn as well.

So so yeah, not, not a whole lot of not a heap of challenges because I think it’s such a it’s an area of interest for everybody right now.

And and, you know, tackling this problem is, is And and, you know, tackling this problem is, is kind of all of our responsibilities.

So and anyone who’s who’s here to help, I think they’re they’re open to listening to.

I imagine your industry like technology is changing fast and often.

What do you see in our future regarding energy production and and the consumption of that energy? Yeah, I think that’s twofold.

I think what we have in Alberta anyway, I can speak for an Alberta context is we have a largely, you know, centralized system, both natural gas and electricity. So, you know, speaking from from from that side of things, I think what you’re going to see is more distributed energy.

So where where municipalities and, you know, smaller groups So where where municipalities and, you know, smaller groups throughout the province are going to start owning their own generation and probably seeing some things like microgrids starting to show up on the map where your your your, you know, have a connection to the greater grid, but you have your own grid, you know, set up within a region or an area, and you produce your own electricity and you distribute it yourself.

And maybe there’s even like short term storage that larger battery storage systems brought in.

I could see that in the future.

Also on the energy side, like on the consumption side, every product that you buy today is getting, you know, an order of magnitude better and energy consumption from your computers to your fridge to your, you know, your any appliance that you buy, really.

to your fridge to your, you know, your any appliance that you buy, really.

And I think that’s something that will continue.

But I think that the next industry that’s going to come is is a push for making housing close to net zero as possible.

Right.

So programs that are designed to help people So programs that are designed to help people reduce their energy consumption in their homes.

There’s some coming out in Alberta right now.

It’s a unique system that’s in other jurisdictions.

It’s called pace or it’s called which means property assisted clean energy.

In Alberta, it’s known as Clean the Clean Energy Improvement Program.

And what that does is it allows people who are looking to make upgrades to their home insulation and new furnaces, you know, solar installation.

It allows them to to get those upgrades done.

And the cost of that gets put on their property tax roll.

And then they’re able to pay that back over time through their taxes.

And it’s not a personal debt.

So interesting policy changes like that have already happened.

And I think in the future, most municipalities are going to try to have something like this available so that people can reasonably go forward with some with some financial tools to to actually address, you know, energy use in their homes and get closer to like a net zero home.

Hopefully in the future and, you know, bring the standard of our homes up because honestly, it’s, you know, for so long we built homes so poorly because honestly, it’s, you know, for so long we built homes so poorly and now we’re realizing that and the energy codes have changed.

And so newer homes are, you know, again, in order to magnitude better, just like everything else.

you know, again, in order to magnitude better, just like everything else.

But there’s a lot of existing legacy homes that need to be upgraded and it will be.

Yeah, kind of the next the next frontier I guess is upgrading our homes to to to make them as efficient as possible.

Do you have any advice that you could give to somebody that’s about to enter the Alternative Energy Technology Program at NAIT? And the advice would probably work for somebody going to any institute that’s offering a program like that.

Yeah, I think that it’s it’s a good idea if you’re thinking about making a switch and you have, you know, an inclination to towards this industry, you’re passionate about it.

I was a little bit ignorant.

I didn’t I wasn’t an environmentalist, I would say, or anything going in.

I learned a lot about climate change and about, you know, the effects it’s having and the weight and the mitigations that that are going that exist.

So if you if you have most people are more educated about it now than than then.

So I think that if you do have that interest, I would jump in with both feet.

There’s there’s way more opportunity out there, even from an education standpoint.

Right now.

I know that the U.

Of A, I believe the University of Calgary, there’s there’s other institutions that have programs around this as well, not just NAIT.

So do your research and find something that that works for you.

So do your research and find something that that works for you.

I imagine, you know, there’s opportunity even to do it part time, you know, not having to jump right in for two years like I did and forgo a wage for a period of time.

It’s something that you could kind of work away at or, you know, possibly even go and get your master’s in.

You know, there’s there’s definitely opportunities there.

You know, there’s there’s definitely opportunities there.

So, yeah, I would say research what’s available and and you know, you can make the switch slowly what’s available and and you know, you can make the switch slowly or you can make the switch fast like I did, but it’s definitely rewarding.

I found it super rewarding and I know that I’ll have, you know a career so until retirement in this in the space and I’m yeah pretty happy with my choice that I’ve made.

pretty happy with my choice that I’ve made.

pretty happy with my choice that I’ve made.

Yeah well congratulations on making that decision.

A lot of people are maybe are too scared to do it, but you did it and, you know, I wish you success.

and, you know, I wish you success.

Moving on.

And thank you for coming on the podcast today.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, any time. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you for tuning into The Job Talk Podcast.

For more information, please visit us at: thejobtalk.com Our podcast music was created by our friend Mike Malone in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.