Director of Sales Talk with Scott Sulz

Do you think you could be successful as a sales person if you didn’t believe in the product or service that you were selling.

Oh, man, if you did, you’d hate life. You The Job Talk Podcast shares stories from people who are passionate and love what they do in their careers.

Through conversation, we explore their careers, past work experiences and the education that got them to where they are now.

We are putting together a Career Crisis Ultimate Interview series.

We are asking experts to give their best advice and guidance around work anxiety career pressures, career goal setting, and ultimately career transformation.

To learn more about this special interview series and get notified when it’s available, please visit our web page at thejobtalk.com/help Today’s guest is Scott Sulz.

Here’s our job talk with the director of sales.

Scott, thank you so much for joining us today.

I asked you to come on this podcast for two specific reasons.

And the first was I follow you on social media, and I see the passion that you have for your family.

But also I see the passion that you have for the company that you work for and your career.

And the second reason was, I see you made a career move in the middle of a global pandemic, which takes so much courage.

And this is coming from a person who had a 20 year career in a safe government job.

But I want to start this podcast off with your story of when you left high school.

Where did you go after you left high school.

Okay. Sounds good.

Well, I followed.

I didn’t go to university, but I was with someone that was going to the University of Victoria.

So I moved with my high school sweetheart to Victoria.

And while she went to school, I worked.

And during that time I found a really cool job at a natural food store called Lifestyle Markets in Victoria.

And that really set myself down a path that at that time I didn’t realize was going to be my career natural food industry for the whole time.

So that became your post-secondary experience learning right on the job for this retailer.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

And working, you know, in a fast paced growth environment.

Three years at the Natural Foods Store and then moved into sales from there, very growing at a fast rate.

So we had to learn on the job quite quickly.

It was it was a really cool experience as a 20 something to be doing this.

Yeah, you must have had a mentor or somebody to kind of give you really good tips on on how to be a good salesperson.

Yeah.

And at different points of my career, there were multiple different people along the way and some of those people were from retail.

They would teach me from their perspective of how to sell to someone because people talk to them as salespeople or they were salespeople that became buyers.

And then other people that worked that I worked for were were able to mentor me.

It was really cool.

And okay, so when you first started, what was your very first role when you walked through the door.

At the grocery store or at the distribution.

Right when you started at the grocery store.

Or the grocery store.

I started in the Dairy Department.

I was the guy doing the ordering and stocking the shelves of the chill and frozen organic items at the store.

And then what was the next what was the next role you moved.

Was it a sales position.

It was well, it was grocery assistant management.

So as we grew, the leadership took on other roles to run the store.

So I took on running the the staff and the ordering for the grocery department.

So it really that part of it, the nuts and bolts of buying and setting up promos and making sure things sell through worrying about dates that’s still pertinent today no matter what.

If you’re like a sales director for a company or you’re the person just facing the shelves of a food store, you need to make sure that whatever you bring in sells, moves through what margins to set it at, what the expectation is, and then how it fits versus your competition.

So like immediately it’s like you’re going to school, but also at the same time playing a game, but you’re playing with other people’s money, so you’ve got to be successful.

Yeah.

So I think you mentioned that you did that for six years.

What what was the next movement for you after that six years in that career.

Where did you go after.

Yeah.

So after selling the food all over the place on the islands, I actually had a personal change in my life.

So I got divorced and my boss was very opportunistic.

He’s very smart and smooth and said, We got a job over in Vancouver.

You want to come over here and work and work alongside some of the key stores that we have in Vancouver. So I did it.

I jumped on that opportunity and funny enough, I spent 13 years in Victoria and now this September it will be 13 years here in the Vancouver area.

Okay. So was that was as well.

Was that with the same organization when you moved to Vancouver.

Yep. Yep.

And then I worked with them for geez, like another seven years after that.

Yeah.

So that’s when things really started cooking for us.

We grew like crazy.

I helped develop markets in western Canada.

We had an amazing young team that just kicked butt and we started to nationalize the organization and I moved into sales management and I helped the leadership team nationalize the whole entire company.

So it went from like something very small in Victoria to my experiences growing with the team and with the organization, to something that became really big in Western Canada and then really big all over the whole entire country.

And yeah, now that distribution company is owned by an American company and they’re the largest distribution company in North America.

So simultaneously, as my career grew and the people around me grew, I saw a whole entire industry grow up.

It was fantastic to watch.

Yeah, that sounds sounds amazing.

And without post-secondary, do you do you find that it’s quite common in your industry that a director of sales learned on the job and didn’t necessarily get a post-secondary education.

Well, that’s a good question, because I don’t walk up to people and say, hey, where’s your education.

So I really don’t know.

Although I would say that there is definitely a culture of post-secondary education, of people pursuing that and then moving on.

But there’s also a huge part of our culture of people moving from one job to another to move up, whether it’s you’re moving from grocery management into sales like I did, or it’s someone who’s a nutritionist that’s really doing a great job with nutritional counseling, but then also wants to become a salesperson.

Yeah.

And then the people who refine it and refine it on the job, that those are the people that are most successful.

You know, the constantly improving, constantly being curious.

Yeah, being curious.

This leads me to okay, global pandemic hits.

Let’s let’s jump right into it. Yeah.

What’s what you let led you to the idea that you wanted to change positions.

Why did you make a change during a global pandemic when everyone was scared that we would never get back to reality again.

Yeah, well, looking at it from that point of view, man, it seems like you’re crazy.

What are you doing? But yeah, but the circumstances led one thing to another.

I actually had a really, really cool gig at the last distribution company at Left Coast Naturals.

I was a sales leader, but I also worked on the team to find brands.

And, you know, as a sales leader, we immediately locked everybody down the pandemic.

Everybody was working from home and you know, I was coaching the team up on being kind and relentless on the phone, you know, like not upsetting people, but calling for that order and servicing the accounts and telling them, Hey, we’re here for you.

You’re the people that actually have to go out there and risk something.

And so we did all that and we it was a really amazing experience.

And the team grew really tight.

And I wasn’t looking for anything but what I was looking for, for our distribution company was the product that I’m now selling.

Yeah, we, I had before the pandemic traveled all over looking for the best chocolate low sugar that we could sell.

Yeah, willing to import, willing to do whatever.

And I found it in my backyard.

And as we met with them and said, Hey, listen, I want your distribution, I’m passionate.

I was actually eating the product every day and I was buying it at Costco. Yes.

Like it’s all in my backyard.

I’m eating it every day. It’s right here.

So I made this passion plea for them to work with me and they said no, but they had a position opening up and they were like, wow, okay.

Yeah, I, I knew the VP of sales really well.

The right at home.

I was really passionate already about the brand, the stars really aligned, and that’s why I made a jump during the pandemic.

And they were really cool about me working from home and being safe when you’re ready to go out, you know, they were really cool about how they handled, you know, the warehouse of the factory, the people who are like they took care of their people and just a class organization.

And I felt really comfortable working and making that change.

But it is hard because everything you’re doing when you leave a job is remote.

Saying goodbye to your boss remote.

We had an online party. They were real cool.

We cheers’d that beer.

I’m on Zoom and said goodbye.

Yeah, yeah.

My son got to see a lot of that, which is cool.

You got to like peek over my shoulder and watch that and see that.

So, yeah, it was pretty rad experience.

Let’s talk about the company that you’re working for now.

Could you talk to us a little bit about that.

You sent over a box of delicious chocolate that made me a hero with my kids.

Thank you very much for that.

But let’s let’s talk about the company that you’re working for and then let’s talk about your your role that you’re in and what you do.

Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So we’re a local chocolate manufacturer here in Delta and we make dark chocolate, delicious dark chocolate.

It’s all low in sugar. It’s organic.

And we make it we have master chocolatiers.

Multiple generations of people making this chocolate is absolutely amazing.

I found the chocolate because I was on a keto diet.

I was exercising.

I wanted to be in shape and I wanted to work out.

And I tried everything.

I tried all these different chocolates and this was my fave.

And I kept buying it all the time.

And my wife loved our Omega Butter Cups. It was just amazing.

So I became a super fan of the brand before I work there, and that’s really kind of unique in that as I joined a company, I’m already passionate about it, so now I have to learn about the specifics, who they are, and how we can go to market together.

My role as sales director for Canada.

There’s two sales directors in Canada.

My boss, Corey Bowen, runs all of Canada for sales, and I run a portion of that, which is quite vast.

anyone that’s a distributor that has sales people, I’m responsible for you except for the convenience and gas.

So we’re talking about everything from people like Save On to London drugs to Natural Foods stores in Halifax, the Whole Foods, everything.

We take care of everyone.

And I am personally responsible for working with the broker teams.

So since there’s two people in our sales department, how do we get across this vast, huge, huge country.

And so we outsource a lot of our sales to some really cool people, and I get to work with those guys as well.

So how do you pronounce the company’s name.

The company is pronounced Chocxo.

So it sounds like there’s an S in there, although it says XO.

So yeah, it’s kind of a really cool name I think, because, you know, the XO is there.

It is the love, the hugs and kisses of love of chocolate.

But also it’s an homage to the Mayan and the Aztec history of where chocolate came from, with the pronouncing that X with a s.

So yeah.

So I guess my first question with this is, do you think you could be successful as a sales person if you didn’t believe in the product or service that you were selling.

Oh, man, if you did, you’d hate life. You not really know.

I mean, it’s it’s completely different.

And when you’re in a role where you feel like you can authentically believe in it, you don’t have to remember a line or, you know, you refine your pitch and you do all the things that you do to become a good salesperson.

But you can talk about it and your experience is real, right.

And, you know, there are brands when I was in distribution that weren’t my favorite that I sold.

And there the thing about that is that if one thing doesn’t sell, you can sell another here.

This is one brand, right.

When I was in distribution, we sold hundreds.

This is one brand.

And in order for me to be successful with one brand, yes, you have to like it and definitely be passionate about it for it to work.

Absolutely. Because people are busy, man.

You go talk to them and it’s like, I got 5 minutes to talk to you.

Okay, well, I’m not going to waste your time about being talking about products.

That’s not going to excite you.

But I want them to understand that what’s possible with this brand and you can’t express that if you’re not passionate and don’t actually believe in it.

Scott How do you how do you stay up on industry trends.

Well, you know, a lot of it now is perusing LinkedIn and checking out, following a lot of the magazine companies and and publication companies and and staying up on that.

At my last job, I stayed really close to all the different trends because we were trying to import products.

So it’s still fresh in mind.

I’ve been with my new job a year and a half, so I’m still looking at the world through that lens.

And you know, the other part of it, Kim, is going to U.S.

trade shows. The trade shows here in Canada are pretty cool.

But like in California in the spring, it’s massive.

It’s basically like the the size of a town in the Okanagan shows up.

Yeah.

And they hit Anaheim and you see thousands of different ideas that are starting down there because it’s so entrepreneurial.

So trade shows is definitely also a way.

Yeah.

What are some misconceptions about a career in sales.

Yeah, there’s a few.

One of them I think is that we sit around in our pajamas till about 11 a.m.

and then hit the road that it’s we don’t work hard, you know.

But I got to tell you, I think it’s just like anything else.

If you don’t put your heart into it and you don’t work hard, you’re not going to be successful and you’re going to it’s going to be called out and it won’t work out.

So successful salespeople also, I think that, you know, I was talking about being kind of relentless and if you don’t have that balance, you know, it’s not really going to work out for you.

And if you’re not a team player.

All right, these are some of the things you need to be considering.

So are you actually still making sales calls and that’s your position or are you managing your sales people as they go.

Yeah.

So I am more director.

So I manage the people in the country, although they are, you know, a third party.

But we work together in partnership.

However, I have to tell you, I do make store calls and I love it.

I love it so much because, you know, like the box that I sent you, it’s it’s a really nice looking box you walk in.

There were chocolate samples and usually people are pretty happy to see you and it makes for a good sales call.

So I try to dedicate the unless, you know, I’m busy doing like a trade show or something, I try to dedicate one day a week where I hit the road or partial part of a day where I hit the road.

It keeps me connected with the people, but really my responsibility is growing sales and growing the brand nationally.

So yeah. Are you on my partner.

Corey. Yeah.

Are you on the road a lot with with this job.

Yeah.

Now that the pandemic allows it, I’ve really made a point of doing it and chocolate is a really cool and especially our chocolate because we’re individually wrapped so that people can take a sample from me when I have a presentation with them.

And if they’re not comfortable with the pandemic situation of having something and eating it right, then they can do that later.

Yeah.

Or they can try it with me at at that moment but as soon as it allowed, you know, I’ve traveled to Toronto, Montreal, I’ve been to Victoria, you know, there are other places to hit.

But yeah, like every quarter I’d be traveling to at least the major markets of the ones that I mentioned.

And then also I want to be able to hit up, you know, Alberta and you know, Maritimes everywhere.

So there is a lot of travel involved, but also managing remotely with people who work in each region.

So they’re the stars of each region, right.

Yeah.

When somebody applies to become a salesperson for you, what do you look for in that person.

Like in an interview.

What kind of advice could you give to somebody applying to your company to become a salesperson for.

Yeah, you know what I look for.

Grit, tenacity and kindness.

So people, you know, if you believe in the brand and you believe in the product, you can see it.

You can tell if somebody is authentic, usually, especially during a first little period of time or working with somebody if they’re really into it, if they’re willing to try, if they’re curious, those are attributes that many, many people have, especially at the beginning of a job.

But when you get past that honeymoon stage of working with someone that you’re hiring and having somebody going, if they’re kind of relentless, if they have grit and tenacity and people want to talk to them, that’s what’s going to make a salesperson stick and that’s what’s going to make them successful as they go in their career.

There are people who are too leaning too heavy on grit and they know people.

And there are people who lean too much on the kindness side of it, and they never close or rarely do.

But when you mix that together and you can try to ask questions in an interview when you’re hiring somebody to find that out and get them to talk about situations that they were in, usually those people are the ones that I’ve seen become stars.

Do you think those skills and attributes helped you in your interview to become Director of sales for for the company you’re working for.

Yeah, I think so.

I think so.

I think that perhaps even more than that, it’s kind of wrapped up in the passion and the understanding of the brand.

You know, from my conversations with the people who did interview me, they knew right away that I had the experience because I’ve been around for quite a long time and done a lot in the industry and worked with some really cool people and learned from them. So they knew that.

They knew the factual information, but I think that they understood that coming into this, that I was going to be relentless.

And then I was and it wasn’t just me though, right.

Like it was working with a team and having an opportunity to talk to people about what I’m up to and that is chocolate.

So that kind of makes it easier.

You know, the more I talk to sales teams and they get to try the product and get to go to sell the product, the more fun it is.

So we just got to get those, get those wins, get the fun experiences happening with everybody, and then we’re good to go.

What techniques and sales makes you most successful.

What do you find works the best when when you’re trying to move your product.

Well, man, it definitely starts with understanding two things what you’re selling, what value you have, what value you have in the marketplace, and then what the people are looking for.

Right.

You might not know exactly what they’re looking for, but if somebody doesn’t go into a retailer and look at their set before you go make a presentation, you’re not really empowered, you know, learning and understanding how you fit into the market.

That is huge.

Without that, you’re asking somebody to do work you’re asking them to think when they’re busy.

You know, I if somebody met with me and they wanted me to come up with an idea for their company guys, I’m busy, you know, that’s kind of what it’s like with that, with a pitch that doesn’t show them how your puzzle piece fits into their puzzle.

Yeah.

What’s a tip.

A typical day like for you, Scott.

Take us through a couple days, like when you’re traveling, maybe you’re on the road, but also do you work from home.

Is your office in your house.

Yep. This is my house right here. Yeah.

So take us to office.

Take us through a typical day.

Sorry.

Yeah, it’s a little days, so I have throughout the week I have a couple of check ins with which also, you know, we, we say we’re a tight knit team.

We stay very close together and we’re always communicating as we go.

The rest of the time.

It’s all about selling and connecting.

So because we have sales, brokerage teams and our our distributors across the whole entire country have their own teams, quite often what I’m doing is connecting with the salespeople and I’m also connecting with the retailers.

So since I’ve been around for a while and even though I’m in a new position and I’m not like the main person that these retailers talk to, you know, where I was in sales leadership at the other distribution companies, if they were talking to our salespeople, I’d still be connected.

I’d still know, you know, the leader of this chain or that chain.

So I try to stay connected with them as well, valuing their time, knowing that they’re not just going to want to chat every single time.

So that’s really what it’s about.

It’s about making the connection and working systematically through the people that we have on our customer list and making sure that they have everything and making sure that they understand the promotions and how best to sell our product so that when it comes time for us to work together, we’re easy to work with.

And there’s, there’s distribution companies and retailers that have different specialties.

And trying to tap into that is a lot of fun.

And like some of them have a different clientele because of who they are or where they are.

And so I try to match that up.

What do we have to offer to that retailer so that they could use us to promote the way that they like to promote.

It’s a lot of fun.

And because the country is so big and there’s so many people with independent chains and different ideas and reps for the distribution company and broker company and all the different provinces, it keeps me busy and it’s really cool to connect with everybody across the country.

I’m not asking you how much you make, because that’s that’s a rude question to ask.

Are you on salary or are you making it through profits that you’re bringing in commission.

Commission? No, I am a salary employee.

Yeah.

So with incentives and whatnot.

And interestingly enough, you know, when you hire a broker team, then the broker team is paid on the, you know, the sales numbers.

So it’s not just my perspective of the pay, it’s also the broker.

Right.

And so I understand that if I’m going to be taking up their time, we need to be successful.

Right.

It’s not just me saying to them, you need to go sell more product.

It’s like if I if I have to try to understand their point of view, we need to be a value added brand.

And I want to be fun and I want to be the best chocolate possible fun company with this authentic, real organic, delicious chocolate.

It’s about the chocolate, sell the chocolate, push the chocolate.

Everywhere you go, have fun with it.

Go sell your other brands as well.

But know that you know this this is going to add value to your day.

And yeah, that’s that’s a mindset that I have, you know, because of that pay structure.

What are the biggest challenges you face day to day.

Oh, man, we’re unknown right now.

And the pandemic, those two things is difficult, right.

As it’s opening up, we’re going to start booking demos at stores that allow it.

And it’s going to be a lot of fun because people are going to be able to walk into a grocery store or order from an online retailer and get samples and try chocolate during the pandemic.

We can’t do that.

You know, when you relaunch a new look of a brand, launch new items during a pandemic, it’s very difficult.

You’re relying on the initial shopping experience.

And that in shopping experience is now where people are going to try to have less product in their aisles so that people can walk through and keep social distance.

It’s very difficult.

And then having meetings before where you can just drop in and talk to the buyers or take people out for coffee and none of that existed.

Yeah.

However, I got to tell you, it’s pretty positive to be able to bounce around and have it socially acceptable to bounce around meeting, to meeting, to meeting and to go to the country like one concert in Halifax and end in Victoria and talk to everybody if I needed to, you know. Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

Scott Do you make mistakes and have you learned from any failures.

And I hate calling it failures, but have you made mistakes that you’ve learned lessons from.

Oh, yeah.

You know, the biggest thing my mistake was, I got to say is, is understanding the value of forecasts, you know, when you’re buying and selling product or ingredients or making it or having people on a shift to do something and have the logistical time frame there.

And as a salesperson, when you’re up, you’re not necessarily hiring for a logistical expertize or forecasting expertize.

You’re hiring for sales expertize.

So having a really strong team to do those things is really key.

Really key.

And I got to say, I’m very impressed with the people that we have in our organization.

It is awesome to be able to work with a dream team of people who are analytically minded and just laying things out perfectly and then seeing it in the way that a salesperson could understand and give them proper feedback.

Yeah, it’s really cool.

What goes into forecasting sales that’s so foreign to me.

I don’t even understand what where you would start with that.

What if what.

I know right.

What are you looking at when you’re forecasting sales.

Well, if you think about it from an organizational perspective as a whole as you’re making chocolate, so you need to make sure that you have all the ingredients and you need to make sure that you have all the ingredients sourced from all over the world because it doesn’t grow here.

It’s not right.

You’ve got to take things from all around the world.

Then you’ve got to understand where are you going.

What is the historical sales numbers that you’ve had.

What are where do you anticipate it going.

You watch the trends and to be honest with you, I am a newbie at this.

I’m I’m in a new job, right.

I was with a distribution company.

We had teams of people that do this.

And we have an expert, Michael Buchanan, who’s just a genius who works with us and meets with me all the time.

And I think one of the biggest things that I would say as a, you know, humbly as a salesperson that wants to focus on sales, is partner up with the analytical minded people.

It’s like Moneyball, right.

You remember the book and the movie Moneyball.

He really changed things when he partnered up with the minds that worked that way.

And to watch him work and work with our procurement team and our procurement team being masters at what they do, it’s really cool to see.

And then I just I watch, I learn, and if I sat there at a computer screen and tried to do it myself, I would be wasting my time working with them in a team environment is definitely the way to go.

That’s. That’s my recommendation. Yeah.

Where do your ingredients come from.

Like Coco is like. Yeah, well.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, the cacao, right.

So the our beans, we have a special blend of beans and they come from Peru and Dominican Republic.

Yeah.

And you know, the master chocolatier, Rob and our owner, Richard, they really work together to create this blend.

It’s like when you have a coffee, that’s really amazing.

You drink it, it’s a black coffee.

It’s smooth, it’s wonderful. It’s delicious.

You can taste the notes. Another coffee.

You drink it when it’s black and it’s like, Oh, you need sugar.

Yeah, it’s kind of the same thing, right.

So they found a roast and it comes from South America.

Yeah.

I keep seeing half headlines and I haven’t really researched it very much.

But is environmental concerns, are we concerned about do you pronounce cocoa.

Well, cocoa or coco.

Yeah. Yeah.

Are we worried about it like, ah, well, yeah.

I mean everything that impacts the environment will impact something that comes from from nature.

Yeah, right.

Being sustainable and working with sustainable companies is key going forward.

You know, I don’t think that there could be one blanket statement to say this is what we’re going to do.

It’s going to be all fixed.

And the more that companies like ourselves and other people in the organic industry do that and share knowledge together on the best practices and and work with third party organizations, it’s it’s going to be a better place. Right.

And that’s part of what we’re up to.

And one of the companies I worked at before, you know, what I would say to the sales team all the time is you’re making a difference just by doing what you do.

The fact that we sell organic items isn’t just because we want a cleaner, healthier body.

It’s also because we want to help them be a better steward of the earth and do things sustainably.

So yeah, we’re worried about it, but working with organizations that have it forefront in mind is key.

What do you love about your career.

What gets what gets you going in the morning.

What do you love about it.

Well, I told you, I’m a super fan of this brand, so I kind of have a bit of an advantage in the fact that I really love the product.

I don’t ever get sick and tired of eating this chocolate.

It’s amazing.

So every day I get up and I get to sell a brand that I love.

I love working in distribution where we sold so many different other items.

Some of them are ones that you’re passionate about, some you just don’t really know too much about because it’s just there’s so many things to sell and I love distribution.

It was fantastic and that grew me into the person I am today.

So I’m not saying anything negative about that at all.

I love those organizations, but you know who are who I get to work with the items that I sell and to work honestly to work across Canada.

I love it.

It’s really awesome to be able to go to Quebec.

I need to learn French. I’m not good at all.

But you know, to get outside the city with our friends and that takes me there and they speak very little English, but we’re connecting over delicious chocolate.

Like, it’s simple.

And I can make a career out of promoting chocolate and have it sustainable.

And then also we’re local.

I get to go see where everything’s made and I get to go represent for that company.

I’m very lucky in that of all the salespeople and brokers and whatnot, I’m the one that lives the closest so that I can go and see it.

And it gives me a sense of pride that I can go represent that.

Yeah.

So every Christmas gift and every birthday gift in your family, are they receiving chocolate from you.

Scott Yeah, they did last year.

Set the precedent. Man It’s going to be going to be.

I have to be consistent.

Yeah. Well, it’s delicious.

Delicious chocolate.

So congratulations on the career that you have and being in the job that you love and, you know, all the technical issues that we had today, you know, you’ve given me a lot of time.

So I really appreciate it.

Thanks for coming on the show to talk about your career.

Yeah, yeah.

I’m very happy that you’re up to this.

Kim, way to go. Congratulations on your success as well.

And I’m honored to be part of it. Great. Thanks, Scott.

Thank you for tuning in the Job Talk Podcast.

For more information, please visit us at thejobtalk.com Our podcast music was created by our friend Mike Malone in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.